The Strange World Of Phony Forced Apologies
January 31, 2013 68 Comments
San Francisco 49ers cornerback Chris Culliver yesterday said he doesn’t support the idea of having a homosexual teammate. It’s a safe bet that sometime today he’ll issue some sort of fake apology after having been pressured by the media, homosexual lobby and probably the NFL. We live in a world of forced, fake apologies. They come from two celebrity sources. The first is from celebrities who commit some sort of crime or say something inflammatory about another celebrity. The second is from celebrities who dare to utter conservative viewpoints in public. We’ll deal with the latter today although the former is interesting because it helps shape our meaningless apology culture.
Phil Mickelson had the audacity to criticize American tax policy. Michelson lives in California which has a 13% income tax in addition to the 39% Federal income tax and all the other taxes one could imagine they have in California. He suggested some changes were in order, including moving out of California. Within a day he was forced to apologize after a left-wing media firestorm over his comments. The coverage of this story was amazing to watch, ESPN nearly had a conniption over Mickelson’s statements. This is the same ESPN that praised Syracuse basketball coach Jim Boeheim for supporting gun control and advertises nearly every sports related comment Obama makes. They praise left-wing views and attack conservative athletes.
It isn’t just athletes that have been attacked for uttering conservative views. White House advisor Valarie Jarrett was forced to issue a fake apology for calling homosexuality a “lifestyle choice.” In fact, a majority of forced apologies seem to have to do with opposition to homosexuals in one form or another. The homosexual lobby, which is nothing more than a thug bully group, relentlessly attacks anyone who dares voice opposition to homosexuality. Chic-fil-a was relentlessly attacked by the homosexual left when one of its officers opposed homosexual marriage. They refused to apologize. The Boy Scouts have been subject to these attacks as well, they seem poised to apologize by allowing homosexual scout masters.
It’s very clear that conservative viewpoints aren’t tolerated in the polite liberal media society. Thus we seem to have any number of apologies issued by athletes and celebrities for daring to utter conservative opinion. Most of them go along with it in order to eliminate bad press. What the left is doing however is bullying conservatives into apologizing for their beliefs. The message that gets sent to the public is two fold. First the message is that conservative view points are wrong and something worthy of shame. Second, the message is that meaningless apologies count for something. Both are bad for society.
The left, Obama included, is trying to silence conservatives. The left-wing media does it through intimidation, forcing apologies or simply running endless negative press. Obama does it by declaring debate in this country over. Yet we still have a country where the majority identify as conservative. Even on issues such as homosexual marriage, half the country opposes it. The left is trying to silence opposition through intimidation in order to get what they want. All of these apologies are meaningless and the message is that if you can give an apology to someone even if you don’t really mean it. That could has profound consequences for society. The left of course doesn’t care about that as long as buggering men get to marry each other while taxes go up.
We Americans need to knock it off with the forced apology. We should not force people in the spotlight to agree with us on all issues nor should we demand an apology when said people don’t agree with us. Society should not allow the media to bully people into apologizing for their beliefs, even if we happen to disagree. These issues are hardly settled, it’s not like we’re talking about people like Michael Richards who launched a racist rant at a comedy club a decade ago. We’re talking about celebrities and athletes who make conservative statements in public on issues that are hardly settled. Disagree with them all you want, that is everyone’s right. However it is not in anyone’s right to demand forced apologies for refusing to tow the liberal line.
About Steven
“However it is not in anyone’s right to demand forced apologies for refusing to tow the liberal line.”
Correct. However, if you work for an organization, and what you said could be construed as talking for the organization, and the organization disagrees with you… As a private company, they have the right to tell you to apologize or they can let you go.
I would love to see the 49ers part ways with their starting CB four days before the Super Bowl. This goes beyond one football player, this is systematic bullying that has been allowed to go on for years. I don’t care if people or organizations disagree with what people believe. We on the right disagree with the Hollywood left but we don’t demand apologies from them. Yet the left demands apologies from conservatives on a regular basis. It’s nothing more than intimidation tactics from the left.
“We on the right disagree with the Hollywood left but we don’t demand apologies from them.”
No. You demand laws to be made that keep gays from getting married.
Making laws or asking for apologies…which one is worse?
The law that has existed since creation is that marriage is between one man and one woman. It is the left that wants to change the law, the right wants to keep things as they have been for thousands of years.
I totally agree here, but I would like to point out that forcing false apologies starts when people are children. I know I was forced to apologize whether I was sorry or not and I see it all the time. I encourage my children to apologize when they hurt someone, even if they don’t feel “sorry”. Is a false apology when you kick or bite someone somehow different?
I think with proper training a child will learn by the time they’re 7, 8, 9 years old to give a sincere apology. All of these fake apologies in the media based on political ideology undermine all of that.
“The law that has existed since creation is that marriage is between one man and one woman. ”
No.
Since it was created, marriage was a contract between two men in which one would gain possession of the other’s daughter. Then it was one man and many women.
I see no good reason not to let gay people get married, as it will impact you not at all.
That is nonsense, marriage is beyond a contract and always has been. Allowing homosexuals to marry does impact me for two reasons. First, it allows evil into society which negatively effects me and everyone else. Second, by allowing these people to marry they become entitled to the benefits of marriage including potentially non-discrimination protections which homosexuals ought not be entitled to.
” First, it allows evil into society which negatively effects me and everyone else.”
How? Give specific examples.
“including potentially non-discrimination protections which homosexuals ought not be entitled to.”
So you want to be allowed to continue to discriminate against homosexuals? Good to know.
There is no such thing as homosexual marriage. God ordained the institution of marriage and it is between one man and one woman. Anything else is not marriage but fornication. Anyone who says differently is the worst bigot of all — that person discriminates against GOD Almighty, and I sure wouldn’t want to argue with the Most High God and Creator of All Things. That’s a losing debate! And one that leads to eternal punishment (if there is no repentance) from holding to that position that God calls an abomination. [Genesis 2:24] Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
[Leviticus 18:22] Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Agreed. These “marriages” between two men and two women aren’t marriages at all but are man made creations meant to destroy God’s ordinance.
“meant to destroy God’s ordinance.”
How?
Will two gay men marrying each other make you want to marry a man?
How does it destroy anything? If you don’t think of it as a marriage, why do you even care?
Anything that seeks to violate something God ordained is an attempt to destroy what God has created. It’s not an issue of me wanting to marry a man if homosexual “marraige” is legal. That’s a straw man argument. The issue is that first and foremost homosexual actions are unnatural and second allowing these people to marry gives them the benefits and protections associated with marriage. If I owned a business I could potentially be forced to provide health insurance to a partner in a homosexual marriage despite my religious objection. That’s a violation of my first amendment rights.
“That’s a violation of my first amendment rights.”
No it isn’t. It’s not any more of a violation than you wanting to avoid providing health insurance to a Jewish couple because they weren’t Christian and not married in your sense of the word.
The free exercise clause doesn’t mean anything to you.
Certainly it does. Particularly due to the fact that there are Christian churches out there that would gladly marry gay couples.
What does that have to do with the free exercise of my faith?
Your church can refuse to marry gays. But the government cannot. And you can’t discriminate against gays any more than you can against blacks or Jews or Muslims.
You can dislike them. You can speak against them. You can teach your children to hate them if you want to. But you can’t discriminate, legally.
Actually I can because homosexuals are thankfully not a protected class.
That’s changing, because people are realizing that they’re just another group of people. Alike us in every way except they like the own sex instead of the opposite.
That they engage in unnatural sex is no reason to provide anyone with special rights. How does one determine who a homosexual is in the first place? Can anyone pick out the homosexual from a police line up. Unless we’re talking about the weird looking guy wearing a purple feather boa, how do we determine who is a homosexual? Anyone can make such a claim in order to obtain “special” rights. So how do we even define this class without creating a legal mess?
“That they engage in unnatural sex is no reason to provide anyone with special rights. ”
Even if I agreed with you that it was unnatural (and I don’t) why should I care what kind of sex they have? I don’t care what kind of sex you have. I’m talking about same sex couples.
“How does one determine who a homosexual is in the first place? Can anyone pick out the homosexual from a police line up. ”
Why should that matter? Can you pick out the Jew from a police line up? Or a Christian? Or an atheist?
Does not being able to physically differentiate them on sight mean they shouldn’t get protection under the law?
“So how do we even define this class without creating a legal mess?”
How about we treat everyone equally? And if there’s a gay couple who is being discriminated against, then we can tell.
Previously from: NotAScientist:
“That they engage in unnatural sex is no reason to provide anyone with special rights. ”
Even if I agreed with you that it was unnatural (and I don’t) why should I care what kind of sex they have? I don’t care what kind of sex you have. I’m talking about same sex couples.
ANSWER: It’s not important if Steve cares – what counts is that GOD cares! And He cares a lot!!! And one day, believe it or not, you’ll know just how fateful it is not to agree with God’s position on every matter. It will determine where you spend all of eternity and eternity is a long, long time.
Just because someone says, “I’m Christian,” that doesn’t make that being a Christian. A real, genuine Christian church would never sanction the marriage of what God calls an abomination. There are real Christian churches and many who are not. It’s the same as what God calls the phony Jews who belong to a Synagogue of Satan.
[Revelation 2:9] I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
[Revelation 3:9] Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
“… because people are realizing that they’re just another group of people. Alike us in every way except they like the own sex instead of the opposite. ” That is the rub, right there, Scientist. Nail hit on the head.
I mean, back in the good old days, when all was right in the world, it was the homosexual who was ashamed, amirite? Good god-fearing folk could walk down the street and comfortably condemn and taunt and judge (and occasionally pummel and/or kill) gay people without fearing any sort of social scorn. You could merrily stand up in any public venue and declare “gay people are evil, dirty and inhuman” and nobody would dream of demanding an apology. Boy, those were the days, eh?
ELTV – God fearing people would not say what you claim while walking down a street. Christians are taught to speak the truth in love. (Read: [Ephesians 4:15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:)
What you claim is totally inaccurate saying that “god fearing people … could walk down the street and comfortably condemn and taunt and judge (and occasionally pummel and/or kill) gay people without fearing any sort of social scorn. You could merrily stand up in any public venue and declare “gay people are evil, dirty and inhuman” and nobody would dream of demanding an apology.
ELTV, God fearing people would try to lead a sinner to repent of his sin so he/she wouldn’t have to spend eternity in hell. God fearing people love and pray for the unrepentant. God-fearing people don’t do what you accuse them of.
Some ungodly people do, and they could call themselves God-fearing, but they are liars, because god-fearing people don’t behave like that.
This is what God-fearing people do. Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. That’s Jesus Christ speaking.
We love people into heaven through repentance and obeying the Law-Word of God.
ELTV, it is very unfortunate that you call people you do not know or understand names and accuse them of actions that is utterly unacceptable to them and their entire belief system.
I think I understand just fine, thanks. I think you understand just fine, too. We just disagree because we are different – you have a chosen holy book and I don’t.
You’ve done nothing to dispute my two points and I fully stand behind them. Our society is increasingly coming around to the idea that homosexuals are human just like any other – not broken or sick or evil or anything else. Just people. This rightfully freaks out those of you who have been taught that they are an “abomination” and “bring evil into society”. Were I a believer, I’d be freaked out, too.
I will totally stipulate that most of you religious folk just condescend to pitying gays as unrepentant sinners who do disgusting acts and so are destined for eternal hellfire; however, the message in a holy book is still behind the bulk of the emotional, psychological and physical abuse homosexuals face. I mean, who else has reason to care about whether other people are gay or whether they get married? You need to start with a holy book, it seems to me.
ELTV – Believe as you like today, but one day you WILL believe as I do. There is no other alternative.
No alternative? Seriously? I would ask you to prove it as the vast majority of current and past humankind heartily, and with equivalent support, disagree…
But we digress. I’ll again note that you’ve said nothing about my points other than ‘those aren’t real Christians’, which is a complete dodge of an unpleasant reality.
You’re argument is with God, ELTV, and He will win. He knows EXACTLY what you mean, every word you have thought, written or have spoken! When you’re standing at the The White Throne Judgment Seat of God, I know that you will remember this. May God send witnesses of the Truth of Jesus Christ and God’s Law Word to speak the truth in love to you. Meanwhile, I pray for you … that just because you do not believe today, one day you will — For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. [Romans 14:11] — One day you will know every thing God ever wanted of you and how you failed. Satan and you will stand before God at the White Throne Judgment and Satan will accuse you of every sin you have committed — the worst of which is unbelief. You will not have one defender, no advocate, no lawyer. And you, if you do not repent in this lifetime, before you leave planet earth, will be found guilty and sent to your eternal sentence. May God send the Holy Spirit to woo you and to preach the Gospel Message of Salvation to you through the blood of Jesus Christ by faith in Him. In Jesus Christ’s name, I pray for you, ELTV. Amen. — Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: [Isaiah 55:6]
I have no argument with God, WWWWW. I am making observations about reality – human behavior as a function of being taught that homosexuals are broken, dangerous people. This has precisely nothing to do with what I do or do not believe.
And I fully understand that you are absolutely certain your chosen holy book offers the one and only path to salvation and I’m happy for you. Honestly. And I appreciate that you would like to see me ‘saved’. I would like to see me saved, too, so by all means pray for me to your heart’s content – but you’ll be battling all my LDS friends who are as convinced as you that they are correct and who are trying to pray me into their own afterlife.
ELTV,
Keep seeking Jesus Christ…for it is written…
[Psalms 9:10] And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, LORD, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.
[Psalms 27:8] When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.
[Proverbs 8:17] I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
[Proverbs 28:5] Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.
[John 3:16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
“ANSWER: It’s not important if Steve cares – what counts is that GOD cares!”
This would only be important if we lived in a Christian theocracy. As we don’t, it doesn’t matter.
“A real, genuine Christian church would never sanction the marriage of what God calls an abomination. ”
It doesn’t matter if you think they’re Christian or not. They are religions. And in this country, we have freedom of religion. Which means, if a church of any kind wants to marry gay people, they should be allowed to do so.
NAS – Mormons you think then can marry a harem of women, that’s a religion too. Not in the USA, they can’t. Besides what a religion does is one thing, but when it is sanctioned by the government, that makes it a horse of a different color. Moreover, NAS, you may think at this moment that because we don’t live in a theocracy, Christian or otherwise, that any one gets to do their own thing, sorry, but you are way off kilter. NAS, you can think what you want, but one day you shall regret those foolish and inaccurate beliefs. You may not believe today, but one day you will — For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. [Romans 14:11] — One day you will know every thing God ever wanted of you and how you failed. Satan and you will stand before God at the White Throne Judgment and Satan will accuse you of every sin you have committed — the worst of which is unbelief. You will not have one defender, no advocate, no lawyer. And you, if you do not repent in this lifetime, before you leave planet earth, will be found guilty and sent to your eternal sentence. May God send the Holy Spirit to woo you and to preach the Gospel Message of Salvation to you through the blood of Jesus Christ by faith in Him. In Jesus Christ’s name, I pray for you, NAS. Amen. — Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: [Isaiah 55:6]
“NAS, you may think at this moment that because we don’t live in a theocracy, Christian or otherwise, that any one gets to do their own thing, sorry, but you are way off kilter.”
No. Because we don’t live in a theocracy, we can’t outlaw things for only religious reasons. That would be the case for outlawing gay marriage.
NAS – When America was founded, you apparently do not know that the US law was created to coincide primarily with Truth – Absolute Truth. That is why US Law and the US Constitution is based primarily upon God’s Law Word. Why, because God’s Law Word is the ONLY Absolute Truth.
Strange how it included that ‘freedom of religion’ thing and not the ‘follow the bible’ thing.
NAS – your comment, Strange how it included that ‘freedom of religion’ thing and not the ‘follow the bible’ thing.
makes absolutely no sense!
ELTV – Do you have the courage to ask God Almighty, the One-True Triune God of the Holy Bible to reveal Himself to you?
Sure. Have done. For several deities, actually – I have friends and family from several faiths and all have tried to recruit me. None of them took. I have tried, but I appear to be completely unable to just decide that a given book is correct and believe.
As I said, one day you will believe, ELTV. Of that there is not one iota of uncertainty. I pray that you find the One-True God of the Holy Bible sooner rather than later, and worst case scenario, after you leave your body and planet earth for your eternal destiny. Keep seeking the Lord Jesus Christ, ELTV. Forget false gods and false religions. Stick to Jesus for He is better than your best friend. May You find Him today. May God bless your seeking Him. May I offer you help — Read the Gospel of John in the King James Version of the Holy Bible and keep reading it over and over again until it makes sense. Seek the Lord where He may be found, in His Love Letter to every human being ever conceived. Why? Because He loves you!
If you think we’re going to he’ll just for thinking differently, then why not let the gays marry? I mean, if they’re damned anyway, we might as well allow them to get the same benefits as the rest if us by marrying the person they love.
NAS, you wrote: ” I mean, if they’re damned anyway, we might as well allow them to get the same benefits as the rest if us by marrying the person they love.”
Because it is NOT what we think, NAS, but what God has declared.
You keep talking as if there is no God, but there is and He is the Ruler, the Rule Maker and the Final Judge.
If I were to go along with your statement…”I mean, if they’re damned anyway, we might as well allow them to get the same benefits as the rest if us by marrying the person they love.” … then I would be agreeing with Satan’s agenda and I would be in direct disobedience to what my Lord God Jesus Christ demands of me. [Acts 5:29] Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. — and God orders me that I must take the Word of God to every one and teach them to obey His Commandments.
[Matthew 28:18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. [19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
What you wrote, NAS, is slick, but no slicker than Satan who deceived Eve way back in Genesis, at the beginning — and she fell for the slick words and deception. Fortunately, I will not fall like her with sly evil intended thoughts and ideas designed to deceive even the elect of God.
For it is written: [Matthew 24:24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
But the key word is, NAS, “if” – and therefore, it is not possible to deceive the elect (the saved, redeemed, born-again, genuine Christian). At least not on the absolute truths of God and His Holy Written Word.
I stand on a firm foundation and will not be shaken.
[2 Timothy 2:19] Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Like the old song says:
How firm a foundation, ye saints of the Lord,
Is laid for your faith in His excellent Word!
What more can He say than to you He hath said,
You, who unto Jesus for refuge have fled?
In every condition, in sickness, in health;
In poverty’s vale, or abounding in wealth;
At home and abroad, on the land, on the sea,
As thy days may demand, shall thy strength ever be.
Fear not, I am with thee, O be not dismayed,
For I am thy God and will still give thee aid;
I’ll strengthen and help thee, and cause thee to stand
Upheld by My righteous, omnipotent hand.
When through the deep waters I call thee to go,
The rivers of woe shall not thee overflow;
For I will be with thee, thy troubles to bless,
And sanctify to thee thy deepest distress.
When through fiery trials thy pathways shall lie,
My grace, all sufficient, shall be thy supply;
The flame shall not hurt thee; I only design
Thy dross to consume, and thy gold to refine.
Even down to old age all My people shall prove
My sovereign, eternal, unchangeable love;
And when hoary hairs shall their temples adorn,
Like lambs they shall still in My bosom be borne.
The soul that on Jesus has leaned for repose,
I will not, I will not desert to its foes;
That soul, though all hell should endeavor to shake,
I’ll never, no never, no never forsake.
Words: From A Selection of Hymns from the Best Authors, by John Rippon, 1787; attributed variously to John Keene, Kirkham, and John Keith.
May you, NAS, find that firm foundation so you may never again be swayed by man’s feeble arguments.
“but there is and He is the Ruler,”
Not of the United States of America.
I imagine you wrote the rest of that for yourself. Because it’s certainly not at all convincing to me.
I can’t convince the lost of any truth, only God can. You may not believe God is the Ruler of the USA, but He is — not only of the US, but of the Universe – and someday you will bow down in fear and trembling when you understand that — when it’s too late. God save your soul, because you are in dreadful trouble.
Yeah, I’m talking about laws, not your theology.
And silly threats about what will happen to a part of me that I don’t believe exists are, really, silly.
Where does law come from?
Me too NAS!!! Me too!!! Me too!!!
“Where does law come from?”
The Constitution. Humans make it. And it includes freedom of and from religion.
The Constitution does not provide freedom from religion, it provides for the free exercise of religion. But that’s not really the point here. The Constitution only applies in the United States and only since the late 18th century. The question wasn’t where does American law come from, the question is where does law come from.
A long history of humans creating laws, predating your Bible (and its claims) by a long way. Look up the Code of Hammurabi for one of the earliest listed law codes.
So it’s your contention that humans make laws. How do humans determine what laws to make?
“So it’s your contention that humans make laws. How do humans determine what laws to make?”
Many different methods, some good and some bad. Obviously, as ‘slavery’ was legal for hundreds if not thousands of years, and even the Old Testament supported it.
Humans try their best to figure out what is beneficial and what is harmful and what should be prohibited and what shouldn’t be, and they act accordingly. The best cultures have a process under which laws can be analyzed and changed if we learn more.
How do you determine whether a law is good or bad?
Me personally? Or societies?
I look at harm versus benefit. Which is why, for example, allowing gay marriage is a good law. Great benefit for the gays and zero harm for anyone else.
How does one determine harm and benefit and why should we elevate one over the other?
“How does one determine harm and benefit”
Science!
“why should we elevate one over the other?”
Because it is the one thing that all of humanity agrees on. We disagree about who should be harmed and who should benefit, and who should be considered people. But we agree that benefit is good and harm is bad.
How does science teach us right from wrong. There are those in the scientific world who will argue that we should kill the sick because it does them more harm than good to be alive. Is that acceptable in legal form?
I’m not sure we all agree on the utilitarian notion of increasing benefit and decreasing harm. How can we resolve the legal conflicts that will almost certainly occur due to these disagreements? What this comes down to is why should we elevate your idea of science created law above other forms of law?
“How does science teach us right from wrong. ”
The scientific method is the only sensible way to determine harm and benefit.
“Is that acceptable in legal form? ”
Assisted suicide, in certain situations, should be legal, yes. But that should be up to the person or someone who knows, demonstrably, their wishes.
“I’m not sure we all agree on the utilitarian notion of increasing benefit and decreasing harm.”
I’m sure we pretty much do.
Science gave us eugenics which led to laws forcing sterilization in the US to say nothing of the racial superiority claims of the National Socialists in Germany and elsewhere. If we follow science, what is to stop us from having these laws when, in theory, science could prove the genetic superiority of one race or group of people over another?
“Science gave us eugenics”
No. People gave us eugenics. By that logic, science also gave us guns.
Racial superiority claims are not scientific. They are, in fact, disproved by science.
“science could prove the genetic superiority of one race or group of people over another?”
Because it doesn’t. They’ve actually investigated. No race is ‘superior’, scientifically.
At the time all of these arguments had a scientific basis that was argued by scientist. In fact, eugenics arguments are making a comeback on the progressive left. Laws were created based on this science and it resulted in the deaths of millions and untold suffering. How are we to know that the science you advocate as law will be fair? Especially when there are few if any truly settled scientific questions. What’s to stop further research from showing people with certain genes are superior? What’s to stop laws based on those conclusions? It’s been a race issue in the past but the eugenics argument can easily move beyond race.
“At the time all of these arguments had a scientific basis that was argued by scientist.”
No, it didn’t. Bigots and racists said it did, but they were either lying or ignorant. Possibly both.
“How are we to know that the science you advocate as law will be fair?”
Because science changes based on better evidence.
Your religion does not.
Which makes science superior.
The eugenics crowd in the US had plenty of scientific evidence to back up their laws, which resulted in the sterilization of over 60,000 people. How does one conclude that “better evidence” results in science providing us with better laws? How does one determine that science provides “better evidence?”
“The eugenics crowd in the US had plenty of scientific evidence to back up their laws”
No, it didn’t. And by continuing to claim this, you are either displaying dishonesty or ignorance. Not sure which you would prefer.
I don’t think you understand the history of eugenics. Eugenics was supported by scientists and scientific argument for years. Obviously it ends up rejected after the horors of the second world war but that doesn’t change the historical fact that eugenics was considered science for the better part of the first half of the 20th century. My point here should be obvious. If we should base our laws on science and scientific discovery, what are we to do to protect ourselves if science is either outright wrong or biased in its conclusions?
The following scientists were associated with eugenics: Alexander Graham Bell, Thomas Edison, biologist Charles Davenport, Henry Goddard, Harry Laughlin, Madison Grant etc. Eugenics and eugenic research was supported by the President’s of Harvard, Princeton, Stanford etc. President’s Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson support eugenic legislation based on the scientific consensus that was forming in the ivy leagues on the matter. I understand all of this gets rejected after WWII for political reasons and ultimately by better scientific research. But that doesn’t change the fact that eugenics was a legitimate science for well over 50 years.
My concern with law based on science is that eugenics will make a comeback. It won’t happen as it did in the early 20th century, it won’t focus on a particular race or ethnic group. It could be based on our genetic code. People with gene X are exhaulted while those with gene Y are deemed inferior. What these genes could be is anyone’s guess but it will be based on science and therefore under your theory of law it’s just, acceptable and moral.
“Eugenics was supported by scientists”
Sure. But not by science. It was supported by politics that used bad science (bad = incorrect) to justify it.
“what are we to do to protect ourselves if science is either outright wrong or biased in its conclusions? ”
Vote.
The original question though was where law comes from. You’ve argued science. I suppose we can ask who determines what is and isn’t science. When most people look at the matter science is dictated by scientists. So when scientists tell us what they claim are scientific conclusions, we’re told we should believe them. It’s been this case with global warming for the better part of 30 years. Now you’re telling me we shouldn’t believe these people if they’re engaged in “bad” science. However can we tell the difference in order that we be ruled by science created law?