Homosexual Agenda Attacks Religious Freedom
April 26, 2012 50 Comments
The homosexual agenda is being pushed by well organized activists with a very clear plan. They’re in the process of targeting small towns, particularly towns known to be surrounded by conservatives. They’ve been targeting Holland, Michigan trying to force a homosexual special rights ordinance. Holland is more liberal than the surrounding area, but it’s hardly San Francisco. They’re also targeting Hutchinson, Kansas with an ordinance which would prohibit churches from discriminating against homosexuals. Thus churches would be prevented from refusing to rent their building to homosexuals for marriages, receptions and such. This is the latest attack on the church from the far left.
The left loves to talk about separation of church and state, as though it’s specifically enshrined in the Constitution. When they talk about separation of church and state what the progressive left really means is that the church stays out of state affairs. They have no problem whatsoever with the state ordering the church around, placing laws and restrictions over it. Thus the left has no problem with ordering churches to pay for contraception even if the church finds it morally unacceptable. Likewise, they have no problem ordering the church to rent space to homosexuals for a fraudulent homosexual wedding even if the church believes that homosexual relations are sin.
First the left came for the Roman Catholics, now they’re coming after conservative protestants. Their goal is two fold. The broader goal of the left is to chip away at religious rights, bringing the church further into the fold and control of the state in the process. In this case, the more direct goal is to gain broader acceptance, even by force, of that which is evil. The left has already been largely successful at convincing young people that there’s nothing wrong with homosexual acts, never mind that they are not what God intended. Now they’re going to attack anyone who disagrees. The free exercise clause of the Constitution means nothing to these people.
In Canada it is illegal for pastors to preach on the sin of homosexual acts. Make no mistake, this is the goal of the left here in America. They not only want government to protect that which is evil but they want to prevent anyone who disagrees from speaking. It’s been largely successful in Canada, pastors are afraid to read certain passages of scripture lest they be arrested for a human rights violation. Is this what we want in the United States? No doubt the left has no problem with it. But those of us who disagree, be forwarned. The ordinance that is being pushed in Hutchinson, Kansas is meant to be a direct attack on conservative Christianity. It’s meant to frighten people into silence. That they’re doing this in the middle of a conservative state is intentional, they’re bringing their war on religious freedom straight to the religious.
Hutchinson Kansas may not pass this ordinance the first time around. Like in Holland, the homosexual activists will continue pushing it until the public grows tired of the fight and simply gives up. They’ve been playing this game in Holland for a decade, dividing the city and dividing the city from the surrounding community. All the while they foster hatred of the church and hatred of God. America is at a crossroads concerning religious freedom. Do we truly value religious freedom, even if we disagree with how some people exercise that freedom? Or do we not value religious freedom and wish to have the church subjected to the whims of the state?
About Steven
Dear Steven,
At the latest world wide homosexual agenda conference we discussed what kind of things us militant homosexuals should be pushing down people’s throat and we came up with a few ideas.
1. We would like to end the type of homophobic bullying that leads young teens, straight and gay, to take their own lives.
2. We would like equal rights and freedoms under the law and relevant government policies.
3. We would like to not be banned from the churches and religions that some of us believe in because we are the way God made us.
4. We would like to be recognised as people, we are not evil, we are just like you.
Consider this the homosexual agenda, we hope it will be passed with a significant majority.
All in favour say aye.
Lots of rainbows and unicorns,
The militant gay left.
Homosexuals don’t need to be bullied, they need to have the gospel shared with them. They need to be encouraged to turn from their sin, just like any other unbelieving sinner. Government should not be in the business of favoring people who make sexual choices, which is what the laws being written are an attempt to do. The church should never accept as a member an unrepentant sinner, which is what a practicing homosexual is.
No one has dened that homosexuals are people. And yes, they are evil. All mankind is according to scripture because of sin. The difference between you and me is two fold. I have repented, not of my will but of His who saved me, and I don’t revel in sin but repent of it. What you want to do is have the church declare that which is sin according to scripture declared not sin. Unfortunately for you God and His word changes not. I would encourage you to repent and follow God’s Holy Word.
I have long held the opinion that homosexuals are after more than just the freedom to live their lives as they see fit. What they really want is to force the rest of us to accept their sexual preferences as being natural, as if God created them that way. It is not good enough for them to be left alone in their depravity, they want those of us who believe it is unnatural and unholy to accept that depravity as nothing unusual. Their actions over the past several years bear that out, I believe.
God did make me this way. He made everyone the way they are, the only difference between me and you is the hatred he gave you and the love he gave me.
That simply isn’t so. Homosexual sex is declared a sin in scripture. The idea that God “made” you a homosexual is simply false. You choose to engage in homosexual relations, no different than any straight person who chooses to engage in sexual relations. That all man is a sinner is not a reason to commit sin and to look the other way when sin is committed.
Absolutely not, God did not make you as a homosexual. It is your choice to do this, not God’s. That’s another thing the homosexual agenda tries to do. They would like to blame their actions on God, but it just isn’t so.
Exactly, we choose to engage in the things we engage in. We choose what we eat, we choose what we drink, we choose to engage in sexual relations with who we choose. Life is about choices. Scripture teaches us to make the right choice, that being the choice of not sinning. Since scripture is clear about what is and isn’t sin, especially in the case of homosexual acts, it is clear what the right and wrong choice is. It is always the wrong choice to engage in homosexual acts, even if you imagine that it is your “identity.” What’s wrong is wrong, it’s as simple as that.
Being born a certain way and God making you a certain way are two different things. I am not saying that people are born gay, as far as I know, there is no evidence of such. What i do know is that people are born into sin and homosexuality, is in fact, a sin. There is no denying it, it is in the scriptures. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and one of their sins was homosexuality. Does that mean God doesnt love someone who is battling with that spirit, no. For we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. There is a difference between God loving and being well pleased with us.
I would also like to say that it is very offensive when people suggest that just because I dont support gay marriage i am hateful. Love does not equal acceptance and, likewise, acceptance does not equal love. If you are in Christ, a Believer, which is the only way to access God the Father, then you make a conscious decision to live according to His Word and not the world. God designed marriage and there is no scriptural evidence of it EVER being defined ambiguosly. Since before the fall of man it has been between a man and a woman.
Lastly, a race of people has never been defined by behavior and the government, gay rights activists are attempting to make homosexuals a race, its absurd.
I can’t argue with anything you said. There is no doubt that there are repentant homosexuals out there who love Christ but nevertheless struggle with this sin. Just like there are repentant drunks, compulsive liars, whoremongers etc. who struggle with sin but nevertheless have faith in the saving blood of Christ. The key is that these people are repentant and they don’t desire to live in the sinful deathstyle they had previously been accustomed to.
Do you think that God made murderers and pedophiles the way they are. As a man thinketh, so he is.
If you don’t engage in ‘homosexual relations’ you are still a homosexual, much like heterosexuals that do not engage in heterosexual relations. Are you only straight when you’re having sex? Just because you can choose to engage in sexual activity or not does not mean you can choose your sexuality and identity.
You choose your actions and you choose your identity. Hetrosexual is the default, if you choose to identify as a homosexual that is a choice individuals make.
I didn’t choose to be female or white yet this is my identity. I didn’t choose to be a lesbian yet that is my identity too. I haven’t read any condemnation of lesbianism in scripture nor have I read that we are born as blank slates that choose everything about ourselves. Everyone has a sexuality. If homosexuality were a choice then by the same logic heterosexuality would have to be a choice too. If you didn’t choose your sexuality what makes you think that I chose mine?
All homosexual acts are condemned as sin in scripture. In fact, all sexual acts outside the bounds of marriage (which is lawfully between one man and one woman in scripture) is condemned as sin. That alone would cover any lesbian relations. Having said that, the notion that sexual identity exists and is acceptable outside of hetrosexual identity is nothing but a modern creation used to justify homosexual acts. There’s apparently a drunk gene but that doesn’t justify people drinking to excess. If there’s a gay gene, it doesn’t justify homosexual acts. These things are nothing but the product of the fall of mankind in the Garden of Eden. They are in no way a justification.
You would be very comfortable dude in Saudi Arabia wouldn’t you? Imagine if every law in the old testament was followed verbatim? We could stone adulterers to death. We could cut off the hands of thieves. Slavery would be legal! Every man could have more than one wife! Whoever did any work on the Sabbath day would be put to death! If a women is not a virgin when she married then she would be stoned to death! Great stuff right from the Bible. But, of course these rules are hopelessly antiquated and rejected-except by the Taliban and other extremist Muslims. Yet, Steve, there is one rule from the old testament that you must abide by because of the evil and destruction that it brings to God’s creation-yes-homosexuality. Homosexuality caused the deaths of 60 million in WWII. Homosexuality caused communism to rule Russia for 90 years, the Great Depression and worst of all, homosexuality caused the 911 attack on the World Trade Center. All these terrible incidences are verified to have been caused by the homosexuals. It couldn’t be, could it Steve – that it’s the homophobe in you that causes you to take such strong opposition to homosexuality? you know-its like that yucky feeling you get when you think about two guys kissing. You know, Jesus -he never said one word about gay people. You think there were no gay people in the Holy Land when Jesus lived there? How come no gay people asked to be cured by Jesus? Why didn’t Jesus cure all gays forever? He had the power to do it!
P.S. Steve-I know you will never post this. Ha ha. As long as you have had the misfortune to read it I’ll have accomplished my mission. Because I believe that you are in fact— gay. I believe that you are a self-hating homosexual. It time to come out pal!!!!!
Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead for the sins of his elect. No doubt some of his elect have engaged in homosexual relations. There is no doubt scripture teaches homosexual acts were a sin. As for the rest of your argument, you’re painting a meaningless strawman that has nothing to do with any of the arguments I’ve made. It’s so 1991 to accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being a homosexual. It’s funny, you want everyone to tolerate homosexuals but you’re willing to attempt to use gay as a weapon. So which is it, is gay good or bad? You can’t seem to decide.
FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES-VERY TOPICAL
Homophobic? Maybe You’re Gay
By RICHARD M. RYAN and WILLIAM S. RYAN
WHY are political and religious figures who campaign against gay rights so often implicated in sexual encounters with same-sex partners?
In recent years, Ted Haggard, an evangelical leader who preached that homosexuality was a sin, resigned after a scandal involving a former male prostitute; Larry Craig, a United States senator who opposed including sexual orientation in hate-crime legislation, was arrested on suspicion of lewd conduct in a men’s bathroom; and Glenn Murphy Jr., a leader of the Young Republican National Convention and an opponent of same-sex marriage, pleaded guilty to a lesser charge after being accused of sexually assaulting another man.
One theory is that homosexual urges, when repressed out of shame or fear, can be expressed as homophobia. Freud famously called this process a “reaction formation” — the angry battle against the outward symbol of feelings that are inwardly being stifled. Even Mr. Haggard seemed to endorse this idea when, apologizing after his scandal for his anti-gay rhetoric, he said, “I think I was partially so vehement because of my own war.”
It’s a compelling theory — and now there is scientific reason to believe it. In this month’s issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, we and our fellow researchers provide empirical evidence that homophobia can result, at least in part, from the suppression of same-sex desire.
Our paper describes six studies conducted in the United States and Germany involving 784 university students. Participants rated their sexual orientation on a 10-point scale, ranging from gay to straight. Then they took a computer-administered test designed to measure their implicit sexual orientation. In the test, the participants were shown images and words indicative of hetero- and homosexuality (pictures of same-sex and straight couples, words like “homosexual” and “gay”) and were asked to sort them into the appropriate category, gay or straight, as quickly as possible. The computer measured their reaction times.
The twist was that before each word and image appeared, the word “me” or “other” was flashed on the screen for 35 milliseconds — long enough for participants to subliminally process the word but short enough that they could not consciously see it. The theory here, known as semantic association, is that when “me” precedes words or images that reflect your sexual orientation (for example, heterosexual images for a straight person), you will sort these images into the correct category faster than when “me” precedes words or images that are incongruent with your sexual orientation (for example, homosexual images for a straight person). This technique, adapted from similar tests used to assess attitudes like subconscious racial bias, reliably distinguishes between self-identified straight individuals and those who self-identify as lesbian, gay or bisexual.
Using this methodology we identified a subgroup of participants who, despite self-identifying as highly straight, indicated some level of same-sex attraction (that is, they associated “me” with gay-related words and pictures faster than they associated “me” with straight-related words and pictures). Over 20 percent of self-described highly straight individuals showed this discrepancy.
Notably, these “discrepant” individuals were also significantly more likely than other participants to favor anti-gay policies; to be willing to assign significantly harsher punishments to perpetrators of petty crimes if they were presumed to be homosexual; and to express greater implicit hostility toward gay subjects (also measured with the help of subliminal priming). Thus our research suggests that some who oppose homosexuality do tacitly harbor same-sex attraction.
What leads to this repression? We found that participants who reported having supportive and accepting parents were more in touch with their implicit sexual orientation and less susceptible to homophobia. Individuals whose sexual identity was at odds with their implicit sexual attraction were much more frequently raised by parents perceived to be controlling, less accepting and more prejudiced against homosexuals.
It’s important to stress the obvious: Not all those who campaign against gay men and lesbians secretly feel same-sex attractions. But at least some who oppose homosexuality are likely to be individuals struggling against parts of themselves, having themselves been victims of oppression and lack of acceptance. The costs are great, not only for the targets of anti-gay efforts but also often for the perpetrators. We would do well to remember that all involved deserve our compassion.
Richard M. Ryan is a professor of psychology, psychiatry and education at the University of Rochester. William S. Ryan is a doctoral student in psychology at the University of California, Santa Barbara.
Richard Ryan has been discredited for years. This is nothing but pure propaganda masquerading as science.
You must be right Steve, everyone knows that the New York Times is the most inaccurate blatantly unreliable news source in the US. Now if I had heard it on Fox News, well then it could be trusted-after all Fox News is fair and balanced.
You are truly amazing, Not a shred of truth of anything that was in that article? Nothing Steve? All lies? Total propaganda? For whom? Who is directing this propaganda to be printed in the New York Times? The gay conspiracy?Who is paying for the research to create this propaganda? Why doesn’t the New York times have better control over its content?
You’re citing an op/ed. As such it isn’t news.
Hey Steve: Gay is gay. Gay is bad when a closeted homosexual, so many really. turn against the gay community. Gay is normal, natural and fine. If you are gay Steve then accept it and stop bashing gay people.
Scripture says otherwise. I’ll stick with God’s word.
Here is what the Bible says about homosexuality.
The acts of homosexuality are simply not natural and are not the way God intended men and women to conduct themselves. Anyone who tries to tell me that it is, I usually ask them one question. If it is natural for two men or two women to have sexual relations, why is it that those sexual relations can not result in a pregnancy?
Ah gee LD let me see, if an infertile man and women engage in sex ( married of course) are they engaging in prohibited sex because its simply for pleasure? My God LD Jackson! There goes your big argument right down the tubes! Got any other great arguments for denying gays equal rights and the right to live without being bashed by homophobes like Steven Birns? Lay them out and lets see if any of them hold a drop of water.
On the contrary, that does not send my argument down the tubes. The Bible does not prohibit sex for pleasure, as long as it is between one man and one woman who are married. It says the marriage bed is undefiled.
This has nothing to do with denying equal rights to homosexuals. Also, as far as I can tell, Steven was not bashing homosexuals or their behavior. Does he agree with them? No, he does not and neither do I. That doesn’t mean we are bashing them. It does mean that we have the right to disagree with them and to not have their perverted behavior thrown in our faces.
You know LD, and actually I am glad that I have an opportunity to talk here, God did intend two people to join as life companions, in love with all the blessings of that sharing. Some people are born with a genetic disposition to love members of the same sex. It is only what I consider to be a putrid application of religious theology, written by sheep herders 2500 years ago, by men, a thousand years after it was spoken, that continues to plague gays in our society. The same hateful mindset of a Christian Europe, led by the notorious anti-Semite, Martin Luther, that also resulted in the murder of 6 million Jews in Europe and God knows how many other abominations in the world. Thank God the Catholic church has reformed itself to a certain degree as has much of Protestantism. How does one protect oneself from taking the wrong path based on religious theology? Easy. If your religion tells you that you must reject and treat as inferior and deny equal rights to any person or group of people simply because of a their behaviors or their beliefs that cannot be proven to be harmful to you or your society and those people then it is time to stop and think and question your theology very carefully. Not a perfect answer but at least a start.
I think the truth is that most men and probably, although I do not know for sure, most women have had homosexual thoughts at some time in their lives. It means that sexual orientation is not a black and white choice. Sexual orientation is a spectrum. Most people are heavily weighted to be attracted to members of the opposite sex. Gays, are weighted to be attracted to the same sex by genetics. LD, are you disgusted by the thought of two guys kissing? I am. But I don’t tell them they can;t do it or that it is sick. Or that purgatory awaits them. I don’t eat snails either. But I don’t condemn people who do. You have to get over the yuck factor before you can think rationally about gay people and accept them as real people who happen to be gay,. Just like some people are tall, some people are short, some people are fat, some people are thin, some people are born with horrible diseases, some people are born with curly hair, some with straight hair, some people are born geniuses, some are born with low IQs. Why does being born gay have to be a moral issue rather than just another variation in the human family? There is no shortage of human beings in the world today as there was perhaps 2500 years ago when half of all pregnancies ended in death and the life expectancy might have been 40 years. Do you think that perhaps, the prohibition against homosexuality might have had something to do with the
need to maximize the growth rate of the tribe that wrote the law? Life was pretty precarious then.
So in short, you don’t believe in the God of the Bible but rather a god of your own creation. There’s nothing Christian about anything you’ve argued for. That you’ve dismissed the Bible is sufficient evidence of that.
It has nothing to do with the yuck factor. It has everything to do with God’s law. If you don’t believe that, there really is no need for further discussion. I’ll not be changing my mind about homosexuality, no matter how many studies you come up with. You’ll not be changing your mind either, no matter what the Bible says. This discussion is probably pointless.
john55 you are so out of touch with science, and especially genetics, obviously you haven’t studied neuroscience (brain plasticity and how the “will” and behavior restructures the brain), nor do you have a current understanding of genetics.
LD: You said “I usually ask them one question. If it is natural for two men or two women to have sexual relations, why is it that those sexual relations can not result in a pregnancy?” That is what I analogized to an infertile couple. Now you did not say,” I tell them one thing: ” The Bible does not prohibit sex for pleasure, as long as it is between one man and one woman who are married. It says the marriage bed is undefiled.” so now you want to extend you argument. Come on pal-you lose! Big time. Please come up with another argument!
I don’t need another argument. You may not believe the Bible, but I do.
More censorship by Steven Birns:
http://diseaseofconservatismstudies.wordpress.com/2012/04/28/more-censorship-by-steven-birns/
I’ve not censored a word you’ve written. If you become belligerent, insulting or if you use coarse language then I reserve the right to censor comments. Otherwise, I have no problem with debate and discussion.
LD Jackson: I believe in the Bible. I believe in God. Do you take every word of the Bible for literal truth?
Steve, you are right about it being an editorial.But—it is based upon research. It wasn’t based upon someone’s summary of another’s work; it wasn’t based upon a theological interpretation of something written 1500 years ago by a sheep herder-who probably had his own biases, it wasn’t said by a multi-millionaire radio jock repeating what he heard on Fox News or some other far-right source-it was actually based on research-which of course will be subject to duplication and verification-unlike the facts and views expressed by Steven Birns and LD Jackson.
I don’t know how you can deny censororing. You have removed several of my posts including the one where I jokingly called you evil because of your name. I should have most of them saved and I will publish them as well.
I haven’t censored anything you have written. I’ve only censored one person on here and I only did that because he/she was belligerent. If you’re that person, you’ll be banned to if you get belligerent. I have no problem with vigorous debate but I will not tolerate belligerence, insults or coarse language. Keep it clean and keep it kind and you can post comments and debate with me to your hearts content.
I do not dismiss the Bible at all. But I do not believe, nor do many, many wonderful, wise and pious people believe that: 1.It was written by the hand of God and not humans 2.That it can be interpreted literally 3. That its laws are infallible . There is much wisdom in the Bible-but there is much idiocy and savagery. Why is that? Because it was written by many different humans with many different purposes and personalities. I believe that one would really have to be a lunatic to try to apply all of the rules of the Bible to today’s world and to believe that every word in the Bible -the Jewish Bible and the Christian Bible is written by the hand of God, History and science prove-actually prove-that the Bible was written by humans. If you want to dispute the science and history proving the actual sources for the Bible then you must indeed be a lunatic completely divorced from everything that humans have learned over the past 500 years. Good luck!
Kind you say Steve??? You think calling Sandra Fluke ugly was kind??? You would not know what kind is if it punched square between the eyes.
Next time I’ll run my personal opinions about the way people look by you first. Rather than getting hung up on Fluke, why not debate actual issues.
You said you wanted “kind” comments. You said Sandra Fluke was ugly-that is not kind. If you said that Sandra fluke could have used some grooming before her appearance before her testimony that might have been different perhaps. Why can’t you just admit that what you said was juvenile and cruel. Limbaugh had to eat crow. Is it too much for Steven Birn to say I was wrong to say that?
And now a few kind and wise words from one of my spiritual heroes: Rabbi Abraham Herschel from Wikipedia
• “Racism is man’s gravest threat to man – the maximum hatred for a minimum reason.”
• “All it takes is one person… and another… and another… and another… to start a movement”
• “Wonder rather than doubt is the root of all knowledge.”
• “A religious man is a person who holds God and man in one thought at one time, at all times, who suffers harm done to others, whose greatest passion is compassion, whose greatest strength is love and defiance of despair.”
• ” God is either of no importance, or of supreme importance.”
• “Just to be is a blessing. Just to live is holy.”
• “Self-respect is the fruit of discipline, the sense of dignity grows with the ability to say no to oneself.”
• “Life without commitment is not worth living.”
• “Above all, the prophets remind us of the moral state of a people: Few are guilty, but all are responsible.”
• “Remember that there is a meaning beyond absurdity. Be sure that every little deed counts, that every word has power. Never forget that you can still do your share to redeem the world in spite of all absurdities and frustrations and disappointments.”
• “When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.”
• “Awareness of symbolic meaning is awareness of a specific idea; kavanah is awareness of an ineffable situation.
• “A Jew is asked to take a leap of action rather than a leap of thought.”
• “Speech has power. Words do not fade. What starts out as a sound, ends in a deed.”
• “The Almighty has not created the universe that we may have opportunities to satisfy our greed, envy and ambition.”
• “The higher goal of spiritual living is not to amass a wealth of information, but to face sacred moments.”
Yes, Rabbi Herschel is worth reading, ” God In Search of Man”. One of the most spiritually uplifting books I have ever read. Not a negative word in the entire text!
Because I’ve been involved in various Christian lay ministries for a number of years, I have seen and heard the heartache and heartbreak experienced by sodomites who have been bullied by those who find their behavior odd and by other sodomites when they try to leave the homosexual community. I care about you and the immediate and eternal consequences of the homosexual lifestyle. I have prayed with homosexuals on my phone. I have ministered to homosexuals on blogs. My heart is saddened for everyone caught up in a sin so binding they are buried in miry clay and like quicksand they cannot seem to escape its grips. Satan has a dreadful, strong hold on many caught up in perversions of so-called sexual deviancy and indecent pleasures. There’s healing for all of that, even from the thoughtless insults from people’s hurtful words. Healing and blessing can only come from Jesus Christ and His Message of Love and Acceptance, but FIRST, a sinner must repent to find God’s blessings of mercy and divine forgiveness. One can not wantonly continue in sinful behavior and find healing, not physically, not mentally or spiritually. Trying to invent a man-made church that accepts sodomy as being natural and sinless still won’t change God’s Law Word or His Mind on sodomy. The Ten Commandments were written on stone tablets (which shows us something about God’s Mindset) and nothing, but nothing can change God’s mind that sodomy is a sin. God has already ruled that sodomy is sin. Repent, be saved, and go and sin no more. That’s what Jesus told the adulterer. And that, to all caught up in sins that put a stranglehold on your life, is what you must do. You cannot do it alone. You’ll need help. There are numerous organizations out there to help a recovering sodomite. Please, dear sinner, find the love and peace of Christ. Find out how to be saved and to lead a normal life in Christ. Seek these Christian organizations out and seek forgiveness for all of your sins. All of them, not just the sins of sodomy.
For sodomites, Exodus International would be a good place to start. http://exodusinternational.org/
Exodus International is a non-profit, interdenominational ex-gay Christian organization founded by Michael Bussee, Gary Cooper, Frank Worthen, Ron Dennis, and Greg Reid. Exodus International promotes “the message of Freedom from homosexuality through the power of Jesus Christ.”[1] Exodus International states reorientation of same-sex attraction is possible,[2] but warns its members not to go to counselors who claim they can help eliminate all attractions to the same gender.[3] It does not conduct clinical treatment but holds the position that, “reparative therapy – a holistic, counseling approach to addressing unwanted same-sex attraction – can be a beneficial tool.”[4] Techniques can include abstinence, lessening of homosexual temptations, strengthening their sense of masculine or feminine identity, correcting distorted styles of relating with members of the same and opposite gender.”[5] (Read more: Wikipedia – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_International )
Sodomites are not the only sinners. I needed salvation. I needed forgiveness for all of my sins. There is not one person ever born on planet earth who doesn’t need Christ’s salvation.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Every one of us is a sinner. Every one of us have come short of God’s glory.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Because of our sin, we deserve death, eternal punishment, the wrath of God. But God, because He loves us, has provided a means to have eternal life with Him. That means is the Lord Jesus Christ.
Read more: http://av1611.com/kjbp/salvation.html
Donna: Yes, I believe you are sincere. But I have known many, many homosexuals who have lived wonderful, Godly inspired lives. Gay people who loved their partner with all of the love that God has made us capable of. Gay men and women who have lived their entire monogamous life with their loved one in a spiritual relationship that many heterosexuals could only dream of finding. Gay couples who have gained the love and acceptance of their families that provided comfort to that gay partner right to the day of their partner’s death.
A person’s acknowledgment of being gay is a soul wrenching. heart breaking experience. No rational person wants to be gay. No rational person wants to hear that they are going to burn forever in hell because of their sexual orientation. Fortunately, most gay people come to understand that a loving God would do no such thing simply because of the way they were born.
You obviously will not accept any historical, rational or scientific reason why homosexuality is not any more abnormal then having blue eyes or being left handed. All I ask of you and the readers here is to leave gay people alone. Let them live in equality. But just like blacks and other minorities they are still discriminated against and still must fight for equal rights under our Constitution and state laws.
Women are still fighting for equal rights in this country and around the world. Look at the treatment women in the Muslim world-all justified of course on religious dogma. Try joining some of our countries’ most prestigious golf clubs-no women allowed.
Jerry Falwell along with the little known Steven Birn are the poster boys for homophobia, I truly believe that Steven Birn is gay and that his homophobia is an expression of his self-hatred that is rampant among far-right ideologues.
Finally, there is no proof, no evidence anywhere that any treatment to re-orient homosexual people has had any real effect at all. The real treatment for homosexuals is helping them accept themselves and to not do terrible things like abuse alcohol, drugs or most horribly commit suicide.
I ask you, if you were a parent of a teenage homosexual would you rather have them alive and accepting of his or her homosexuality or would you rather preach damnation to them-on top of all the bullying most likely perpetrated by their peers and by bullies such as Steven Birn ( who has no issue with calling a female college student ugly in a public forum) that may ultimately lead to his or her tragic suicide? I choose the former.
I will follow my hero’s advice: Rabbi Abraham Herschel:
“A religious man is a person who holds God and man in one thought at one time, at all times, who suffers harm done to others, whose greatest passion is compassion, whose greatest strength is love and defiance of despair.”
john552atrocketmailcom
put every modern and past world comparison aside, and I think the main thing everyone; homosexual or not, should measure their thoughts and ideals on, simply, the God of the Bible’s message. Why name a person like a Rabbi, even a pastor, priest, etc., and argue to say “is this what this is and that is?” when presenting in the argument a person’s words and views may ALL not measure perfectly towards the word of God? And, it seems, if you really have not read or re-read thoroughly, to me at least, your comment(s), you are on fire to defend what you support which as it looks, the homosexuals. LD and others have pointed out verses; and IDK if you listened towards how they weren’t really attacking GAYS “but” pointing out God’s words for you to understand which I don’t get why you spin off to post “non-relevant” answers towards the “ultimate” answers towards WHY Steve and LD, have just “AGAIN” and “AGAIN” kept saying…”according to the Bible”…
They weren’t attacking GAYS, yet, they were expressing how the idea of homosexuality measures with the word of God. Listen, maybe you are judging them blindly out of the fiery support you have in your heart on maybe, how, plenty of other christians have wrongly attacked GAYS out of unwise, hurtful, Christ like explanation, or words? I know people that are GAY, and pray about them; but people – gay or not – cannot really understand God, if they are not willing to repent or give up their sins; which may consist of ideologies such as the homosexuality idea and WHY its right in “our own eyes” when OUR ways ARE NOT “GOD’s” ways or thoughts.
You quoted an issue concerning women in muslim countries too, and how is this relevant towards the others who have explained in several parallels, simply, the question: of how homosexuality or its ways measure with God of the Bible?
You compare gay couples and comment how their relationship lives are far better than some heterosexual couples: how is this relevant to the above as well? How does bringing the comparison of this answer the statement and question, LD and Steve, for example, have pointed out, on what God of the Bible, said about homosexuality? Do you not see how your argument is going far to the simple things they have pointed out? I have no hate for others or people (homo or not) but I must say it seems to me, you are the one shying out of the words being said to you, because you are embracing an ideology that is pleasing to people? Those who support homosexuality? People of all kinds are not perfect, which is why, yes, Jesus died for us, BUT as a Bible believing Christian, you have to also keep in mind the evil forces, seen or unseen, and, sinful hearts we have; which the others have pointed out and you seem to bashfully attack them by rerouting and pointing out articles to…idk…what you’re trying to prove now because you simply…which IDK….why didn’t you simply get what they are saying: over how the idea of (again) homosexuality measure with God of Bible’s (not Quran, Latin Vulgate, Vatican, etc. : if you have studied religious scriptures there ARE BIG differences) laws and ways: and if you “understand” the Bible, you will not be too quick to judge why God call – as the Roman’s verse pointed out above – homosexuality “unnatural.”
Lastly, going back to homosexual couples who lived “Godly inspired lives, what is “Godly inspired” in measure towards what scripture says? Godly inspired in “our ways and thoughts” or “God’s ways and thoughts”?
(Food for thought my friend)
Is there anywhere on the internet where Christians who believe that homosexuality is wrong can move on to discussing what to do about it? Not a pointless discussion about whether homosexuality is wrong. Accepting that as a given. But moving on to discussion about what to do about it?
I went to Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized!
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84307
When I tried to register, their registration required me to identify my politics and naturally I declined to do so. The site erased what I typed in and said I had to identify my politics:
Political Spectrum
Pick the option that best describes your political leanings.
Pinko Commie Left Wing Fanatic
Left Winger More left than right
More right than left Right Winger
Right Wing Fanatic Right Wing Zealot
Please note the use of the right-wing term “pinko commie” and the lack of words like Ku Kluxer or Nazi on the other end of the spectrum. Instead the pleasing word “zealot” is used. And please note the lack of a choice like moderate or centrist. Am I to think that God is an ultraconservative reactionary or some such pigeon holing of God? That is the clear implication. You are not a Christian if you are not extreme right wing? Perhaps this is not what Theology On Line meant to communicate but that is what got communicated. Heaven is only for members of one political party. I seem to recall that Jesus numbered amongst His disciples Sadducees, Pharisees, Zealots, and many non-politicals. Jesus Himself may have been raised as an Essene or Therapeutae when The Holy Family was in Egypt. So trying to insinuate the supremacy of one political party is anti-Biblical.
It is dispiriting to notice how often I go online to seek out other Christians and get this kind of door slammed in my face. No wonder studies are showing that people are turned off by extremist evangelicals in politics and that more and more people are identifying themselves as none of the above (“nones”), spiritual but not religious. This at a time when we need organization and The Church — body of all believers whether Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, or the other two branches of Christianity in the Islamic countries.
And if I go to a non-Christian forum online and start saying that homosexuality is wrong, I risk some cybercop coming after me for supposed hate crime and even risk arrest. I can show you links where people speaking out are arrested.
There are a lot of liberal Christians who think homosexuality is wrong but conservative Christians prefer to attack them for being liberal. Not listening and slapping someone is not a great way to communicate.
Most black Christians in Africa and America (most Blacks period) think homosexuality is wrong. But when they hear conservative Republicans say insensitive things, when they see lily white Republican conventions, when they hear Tea Party and other extremists use the N-word, when they watch a Protestant President Obama driven out of his church (and then called a Muslim) and when they read racist things on the internet; well this is also slapping someone in the face and turns away another potential ally.
Until recently, all of Latin America and Latino culture took a dim view of homosexuality. But Hispanic American hear any talk about illegals as directed against them. There goes another potential ally.
Speaking of potential allies, Muslims in general have a dim view of homosexuality. I am no fan of Islam. But there is such a thing as picking one’s battles (let missionaries worry about winning their souls) and they are potential allies. For all I know, other world religions such as Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism and Zoroastrianism may also have a dim view of homosexuality. And I would not even dismiss atheists. I am no fan of communism since its body count surpasses that of the Nazis (6 million Jews + 6 million non-Jews). Communists in Russia, China and elsewhere have snuffed out upwards of 40 million souls. That said, individual communists such as Nelson Mandela, Ned Cobb and Paul Robeson have been honorable people (most other “commies” are indeed rascals). It would do the reader well not to drag the names of these three communists through the mud because your listener will know you to be an ignoramus. My point is don’t slap potential allies in the face. Not when we are fighting for marriage and fighting for civilization itself. We may end up fighting for our very lives if we heterosexuals continue to fight amongst ourselves as the sodomites laugh and continue their agenda to do the work of Satan.
So if there is any Christian on the planet who is past debate but is not into hate, any Christian who does not waste energy on stupid liberal versus conservative infighting, then contact me.
To be perfectly honest I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about or discussing homosexuals. I have my position on the matter, it’s been stated on here before. But I don’t sit around discussing it and have no idea where one would go to have a civil discussion about it. The church faces so many issues that are more important than homosexuals that it almost serves as a pointless issue. When we have pastors and entire denominations that don’t believe the infallibility of scripture, who don’t accept the virgin birth, the resurrection, seven day creation etc. discussing trivialities such as specific sins seems pointless to me. That’s not to say that sin isn’t important, it is. But we can hardly be surprised that homosexual acts are accepted as normal or even laudable when churches don’t even believe the gospel.
Hello friend! Quite a lot you wrote there. I dont associate with any political party or anything of the sort (not saying its wrong I just dont).
To your first question, I have a post on my blog that addressesit. Not homosexuality specifically but any thought/feeling that turns into actions contrary to God’s Word.
Heres a quote from it: The enemy throws thoughts and feelings at you hoping you will receive them, meditate on them, allow them to transform your thinking, and then act accordingly. Feelings and thoughts that are contrary to God’s Word…
People view homosexuality as a separate sin more sinful than others. Thats simply not true. Just as one can be free from doubt, anxiety, alcohol addiction, drug addiction…one can be free from homosexuality. It takes a renewing of the mind, which basically means
Change the way you think so you can change what you do.
http://reignoffaith.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/be-ye-transformed/
Discussing it definitely isnt pointless if people are being edified. In order for people to live the fullest life they must do things Gods way and that way must be taught, discussed and accepted as Truth.
It takes salvation in Christ and a considerable amount of struggle. Like with any sin, it’s possible to put homosexual lust and acts in the past but only by the will of God. I didn’t mean to suggest that the topic cannot be edifying. My point is that there seems to be an over focus on this and other “major” sins to the point where the church ignores Biblical worship and other Biblical doctrines that should be of a greater priority.
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